Comments on Root Simple: Stirred, Not Shaken

Hi Anonymous, I've updated that link in the p...

2012-01-29T08:30:35.384-08:00

Hi Anonymous,

I've updated that link in the post. Let me know if you're still having trouble downloading it (I assume you mean the one that finds no benefit to biodynamics).

The problem with this study is that you can't use the scientific method to explore the metaphysical. As John Michael Greer would say it's the wrong map.

Hi, do you guys have an up to date link for the so...

2012-01-29T08:07:20.591-08:00

Hi, do you guys have an up to date link for the soil journal abstract you have listed?

Here's a fascinating explanation for why moon ...

2009-12-05T04:14:54.921-08:00

Here's a fascinating explanation for why moon planting "works", from a well known author and someone who actually went to a lot of effort to test this bunk.

http://www.undeceivingourselves.com/S-plan.htm

If you're going to follow this stuff, are you ...

2009-11-30T02:39:21.410-08:00

If you're going to follow this stuff, are you prepared to also figure out when the moon is 'nodal', or in apogee or perigee? How about when the Moon is 'opposite Saturn'?

If you just want to follow a pre-printed calendar and not worry about it, do you follow one that is based on the 'sidereal' zodiac or the 'tropical' zodiac?

Are you prepared to put up with confusing instructions, bad logic, bad science, and even bad grammar in the biodynamic publications?

Are you prepared to spend a lot of time and money on hocus pocus, which is unproven?

Or should you simply cultivate nutrients, biodiversity and healthy ecology in your soil, and plant when rain is expected?

"What paper are you speaking about??? Referen...

2009-11-30T02:02:34.328-08:00

"What paper are you speaking about??? References would be good "

The paper linked in the original story! Not my omission there, Slick.

And to the person that says "Organics works". Yes, no kidding. That's what the paper says. But BD works not because Saturn is rising in Aries when someone plants corn, but because of the ORGANIC methods followed as part of BD.

BD makes people pay close attention to their land, another plus. But again, organic methods can do that too.

Everybody, please have a read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture#Studies_of_efficacy

Including the "criticisms" section.

"Weeds are combated (besides the usual mechanical methods) by collecting seeds from the weeds and burning them above a wooden flame that was kindled by the weeds. The ashes from the seeds are then spread on the fields, then lightly sprayed with the clear urine of a sterile cow (the urine should be exposed to the full moon for six hours), this is intended to block the influence from the full moon on the particular weed and make it infertile."

C'mon everybody! Its 2009, we have a better understanding about the universe, as well as better appreciation for the mysterious. This stuff is rubbish. Our movement needs SENSIBLE and CRITICAL thinking that is founded on proof. Any other approach scares away the smart people.

I'll have a read of Maria Thun, but I can say one persons' results does not equate to a well run, peer reviewed study with double-blind controls.

What a delightful blog! To all those who immediate...

2009-11-29T09:01:05.113-08:00

What a delightful blog! To all those who immediately throw out the works of Rudolph Steiner without having tested them in the field, how scientific is that? The gap between the esoteric and the scientific is largely a matter of measuring and viewing devices. In the Middle Ages bacteria were esoteric. Who knows what new ways of perceiving, including testing scientifically, the future holds? I haven't gotten around to doing biodynamics myself but would love to play with it. Where does one get hold of cow horns? And does it make sense to use oak bark if one lives in a different landscape? Anyway, great blog, will be back.

So the research says it doesn't work? Readers...

2009-11-10T22:56:29.591-08:00

So the research says it doesn't work? Readers assume that means it's quackery. Look closer -the research in question ran for 2 years and was intended to be a short-term evaluation of BD effects. The big thing about BD as far as I can make out is that it helps to build humus levels in the longer term - 20-30 years. Then long term trials show that there is a difference between BD and organic.
The world desperately needs its humus layer and topsoils cared for - our food production depends on them. Isn't it amazing that BD can actually do something about that when not much else can? We're very good at destroying substance but what other tools do we have that can create it like BD can? Lis

Hello, ever heard of Maria Thun? She was growing g...

2009-11-04T00:15:00.395-08:00

Hello,
ever heard of Maria Thun? She was growing grub based on the connections of planets and moon. In her books you can see pictures of plants sown and planted on different times and it's obvious that they repeat a pattern. She had a lab where everything is analysed, so it's a more scientific aproach to biodynamics and permaculture.
when you search for maria thun calendar on google, you can see the dates to plant different types of grub.

2009-11-04T00:13:57.992-08:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

Hey Greg, What paper are you speaking about??? Re...

2009-11-01T21:17:10.150-08:00

Hey Greg,
What paper are you speaking about??? References would be good and if you looked it up you would see that BD Ag was the first organized sustainable movement out there......it is organic, sustainable, and will be around for the long haul. The energy spoken about is about as understandable and "WHOO" as gravity and electromagnetism....both unseen forces last time I checked....So, Greg, yes organics works...

IMPORTANT NOTE: The paper surveying many studies ...

2009-10-30T02:04:35.738-07:00

IMPORTANT NOTE:

The paper surveying many studies was looking at biodynamics versus CONVENTIONAL ag!

No kidding there'd be an improvement.

In the conclusions, he raises the question - But is biodynamics any better than organic? Or are the benefits realized with biodynamics just a result of the "organicness" of the biodynamics practices?

That question is what he addresses in that second paper - and the conclusion seems to be there's no difference. That is, the benefits of biodynamics isn't about "vortices" and "cosmic energy" - the benefits are simply about the organic methods biodynamics piggy-backs onto. Soil carbon, compost tea innoculants, the value of micronutrients, healthy soil, etc.

So, everybody, seems biodynamics is quackery, but organics works.

It works. Healthy crops, tasty vegetables. Simple....

2009-10-26T22:48:22.207-07:00

It works. Healthy crops, tasty vegetables. Simple.

A shame that people unsubscribe just because this ...

2009-10-26T05:13:03.494-07:00

A shame that people unsubscribe just because this methods are described as being on trial. A shame, but not a loss.

Wow, thanks for the heads up that you folks buy in...

2009-10-26T04:40:39.158-07:00

Wow, thanks for the heads up that you folks buy into the "woo". I won't waste any more time here.

Mrs. Homegrown here. We have a saying around here...

2009-10-25T16:43:14.352-07:00

Mrs. Homegrown here.

We have a saying around here: "What works, works."

A corollary to that is, "What works for me may not work for you."

Mr. Homegrown loves systems, and over the years has cycled through many of gardening techniques, looking for a fit that pleases him. Bio-Dynamics is just another experiment.

Personally, my system is to stick in the ground and see if it grows. Did my eyebrow arch up when he came home with a bucket of magical innoculant and a lavender wand? Yes. But I honor his right to find his own path, just as I honor all of your individual methodologies and beliefs.

We're all about experimentation here at Homegrown Evolution. Our winter crops are being put in according to Bio-Dynamic principles. We'll see if it works and report back.

When I see someone bearing into pseudo-science my ...

2009-10-25T09:09:31.961-07:00

When I see someone bearing into pseudo-science my panties automatically begin to bunch.

I wonder how people belief in the words of the bib...

2009-10-25T06:25:02.720-07:00

I wonder how people belief in the words of the bible on one hand, but wouldn't allow to see mother nature as something like the holy spirit. Not that I'm into eighter, but I tend to communicate with my garden more than with obscure ghosts/god(s). Parts of those Demeter approaches make sure that plants get minerals and fertilizer just from the scientific view. So no harm done at all, why do people react like someone stole their lunch box?

I prefer to make compost, raise bees, and grow org...

2009-10-24T20:54:16.478-07:00

I prefer to make compost, raise bees, and grow organically. If that isn't enough to establish your intention, you might be in the wrong field.

I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that biody...

2009-10-24T11:40:42.216-07:00

I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that biodynamics is equivalent to persecution of witches. It just worries me when people accept magical thinking because it can open them up to manipulation by others.

I know too many awesome Waldorf kids to think that...

2009-10-24T02:03:10.560-07:00

I know too many awesome Waldorf kids to think that Steiner was anything other than massively weird, but usually right.

Actually, I just spent a bit of time away from my own garden on a big organic and biodynamic farm in New Jersey. I got to do the biodynamic preparations a week ago. I wrote about it here, should you care to read it: http://earlofgrey.livejournal.com/393235.html

I fear that this willing suspension of disbelief c...

2009-10-23T16:03:26.833-07:00

I fear that this willing suspension of disbelief can groom people for far worse than stuffing cow horns with shit; http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8315980.stm

Aaaand unsubscribed.

2009-10-23T09:24:23.480-07:00

Aaaand unsubscribed.

Did anyone notice J. P. Reganold is an author on b...

2009-10-23T08:35:38.315-07:00

Did anyone notice J. P. Reganold is an author on both papers? Now I AM confused. For now, I think biodymanics might affect something that science does not have the tools to measure yet. Too much time around paramagnetic rock!

I love the idea of getting more from gardening tha...

2009-10-23T07:48:39.926-07:00

I love the idea of getting more from gardening than the physical health benefits. As a person with pagan leanings (in ritual, not in theism or dogma) I've noticed that gardening in general often fulfils my yearning for ritual and sense of connection to my ancestors and nature. This sounds awesome!

Hi Kelly, I, too, am intrigued by the idea of Biod...

2009-10-23T07:31:44.522-07:00

Hi Kelly,
I, too, am intrigued by the idea of Biodynamics as a recognition of the "one-ness" of nature (and the ecology of the universe maaaaan) -- the bugs, bees, birds and other critters, beneficial flowers, herbs and plantings, water systems, moon cycles and it goes on and on. My hubby and I toured the Benziger Biodynamic Vineyard in Northern Cal in the spring and I took photos of their educational exhibits. You can find my photos here: http://www.homegrown.org/photo/albums/benziger-biodynamic-vineyard
Always a fan.